In the past you’ve said that market leaders think, act and communicate differently than the rest of the population. What do you mean by that?
David: Hi and welcome to the podcast today co host Chris Templeton and I will be talking about communication, how market leaders do it compared to the rest of the population. Welcome Chris.
Chris: Hey David, thank you very much for having me back. I sure am enjoying these conversations. I’m super excited about this one because leadership is something that is so important, so missing in business, and when you say that leaders think and they act and they communicate differently than the rest of the population, talk about what that means from your standpoint.
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David: Okay, well first of all, when I talk about leaders, I don't necessarily mean presidents of organizations or chairmen of boards, things like that. When I talk about leaders, I simply mean people who other people look at as someone that they want to pay attention to and people who lead tend to communicate differently. They tend to be more focused. They tend to be more authoritative in a lot of cases, generating good ideas, engaging people, all that sort of thing. And most people don't really think about it, they don't focus on it. And as a result they end up meandering around and just having sort of boring conversations and hopefully every now and then they'll hit on something that moves people.
Chris: So how do you make that change when you switch to really becoming a leader? What do you think are some of the more important characteristics around that?
David: Well, in terms of communication, I think it really begins with the idea of wanting to, once again, as we talked about previously, help other people and how can I get to that as quickly as possible? You know, a lot of people today talk about content like this podcast is content. A blog post is content. A social media post is content. It's all content. And what some people do is they just go out there with a whole lot of words and hope that occasionally some of their words will connect up in a way that means something to someone. And I find that rather inconsiderate of the listener. One of the reasons that I've hesitated in the past to have the kinds of conversations that we're having now is that I wanted to make sure that it stayed focused, that it stayed on track so that people are able to get something from it.
David: And if we started wandering off on crazy tangents, then it loses its value. And so I think that from a leadership standpoint, it means really thinking in terms of what is going to help the other person, what's going to help this prospect? What's going to help this client? What's going to help this person that I would like to be able to establish some sort of business relationship with? And if my communication can then reflect that, then it's going to be better all the way around. I'm sure you're familiar with the book, How to Win Friends and Influence People.
Chris: Dale Carnegie.
David: Yeah! So, the basic concept of that book is that if you talk to other people about themselves, they'll think you're the most interesting person in the world. And what I think leaders do and salespeople who are leaders certainly do this, is that they make it about the other person. They make it about the prospect, they make it about the client, and then figuring out based on what that person needs, how they can help.
Chris: And I think there are a couple of things that really help to push that along in the nicest of all ways. You and I have in the last two podcasts have talked about fit quite a bit and one of the things that I think is the nicest approach is to say, you know, I'd love to sit down with you and see if there is a good fit between us. And then I think the second thing that you can add to that is I'd love to be a great resource for you, but if it's not a good fit, let me see if I can't help to get you pointed in the right direction. You know, really what we're talking about in a lot of ways in regards to being a good leader is getting people to relax with you and to feel like they're not being threatened. And their guard doesn't have to be up that we're just trying to sell them something. Right?
David: Right, and the idea of saying to someone, I'd like to sit down with you. I think that many salespeople should be, in some ways hesitant to have that conversation. I think many salespeople are too quick to jump at the idea of sitting down with someone else before they even know if they can possibly help them.
David: That's why I believe the idea of qualification, you know, intelligent, thoughtful qualification should always precede the appointment. And I've had discussions with salespeople about this who have argued with me about it. They're like, well, no, you've got to go for the appointment. I'm like, why would you want to have an appointment with someone who may not be qualified to buy from you where there's not a good fit? They don't have the need, the desire, the money, the budget, the willingness to spend. Why would you even want to have a conversation? And I learned that lesson the hard way, as I've learned most lessons in my business career; when I set up an appointment with someone who was no way qualified to buy from me, and I didn't bother to figure that out in advance. So, it took me forever to schedule the appointment. And then when I finally scheduled the appointment, the guy didn't show up. And when I ended up at his place, I looked around and I realized that I didn't belong there to begin with. He probably didn't have two nickels to rub together and he wasn't even polite enough to show up and tell me that. So I recognized that the idea of saying, “would you like to sit down and have a conversation?”, that goes both ways. Salespeople feel like someone's doing them a favor when they say that they'll get together with them, but it's not really like that. When you've got something of value to offer to your prospects and clients, then it should be reciprocal. It should be just as beneficial or more beneficial to the person you're sitting down with than it is for you.
Chris: That's a great way to put it too, and you're right and thinking about it, my approach is really about, I'd love to get on the phone with you and just get a sense of where you're at, and see if that's a fit and how guilty are small business guys of doing what I suggested at the beginning. It's just - get into the appointment and then find out that it wasn't a worthwhile use of my time or their time.
David: Well, I think in a lot of cases because many salespeople have been trained to go for the appointment and even what you said there about wanting to get on the phone with somebody to find out if or how we can help, we all want to do that, but the problem is the approach and it's just like going for the appointment. If I say to somebody, I'd really love to get on the phone with you and find out this or that, then it sounds like they're doing me a favor by doing that.
Chris: Ah, that’s a good point.
David: Ideally it's better if you're able to create an environment, and this is what Total Market Domination is all about. If you can create an environment in which the very best prospects in the market for the products and services you offer actually want to talk to you and they say, Hey, listen, I'd love to have a conversation about this, and then you welcome that conversation. It's a hundred times better if it's their idea. They're saying they want to have a conversation with you than if it's the other way around.
Chris: Wow. I missed that one completely, Huh?
David: Okay. Well that's why we're having the conversation.
Chris: What are some of the ways that with your course that you help these people want to come to me as a business owner?
David: Okay, well let's think about what we're doing in this podcast. All right? So there are people listening to this podcast that are not a good fit for what we do, right? I don't really want to have a conversation with those people. They're welcome to listen to whatever I put out. They're welcome to use it however they want. And I hope they do great with it, but it's not the kind of thing where I'm going to call people and say, “Hey listen, I think we should have a conversation about your business.” Instead, it's the other way. There are some people who are listening to this right now and they're going, “Wow, that makes sense for me. I'd like to have a conversation about that.” And so if they want to initiate a conversation with us, they can do that. We've got a way they can do that right on the website. We'll talk about it at the end of the podcast, and if they want to initiate that conversation then we'll sit down with them and we'll go over which market are they looking to dominate? Who are they looking to reach, what do they need to communicate? And we'll have a very positive in-depth conversation with them about how they can do it and if it makes sense for us to work together. And if we both think it makes sense, then we'll work together. And if it doesn't make sense on their side or our side, then we won't work together. But either way they walk away from the conversation having gotten tremendous value from the communication and value from the interaction. And when I talk about how leaders communicate, it all feeds into that because if I said to somebody, “Hey, let's talk about how I can help you do this or how I can help you do that.” If it sounds like it's a sales pitch and if it's designed to be a sales pitch, it's just not authentic. So if I can find a situation where we've got a fit with someone, we're having a conversation, it makes sense. They get us, we get them, and we honestly believe we can help. Then we'll offer to do that. And if they want to do it as well, then we'll do it. If one of us doesn't, then we won't.
Chris: So how much better would you say business would be if that was everybody's approach versus the standardized, “Hey, let's get together?”
David: Well, I don't know. I mean, I think that the let's get together and you know, please do me the favor of having an appointment with me is so ingrained with most salespeople and most salespeople won't even hear this podcast. So they won't even know that there's another way possible. But in general, business would just be better even if it didn't improve sales for you, it would improve the perception that people have of you, it would help you to attract a better quality of clientele. And I think it would improve your quality of life.
Chris: And I think the other thing that's so important to talk about is just this whole idea of when you're coming at this whole process as a leader. There is a sea change in how you view what you're doing. I mean, just listening to you talk about this idea of moving the conversation from one of, Hey, let me get together with you versus a business owner company and say, I've really, I've heard your podcast, I've seen this and I've seen that and you really are the guy that I think I need to talk to… Man oh man! What a difference in business!
David: Right. Cause it's a whole different approach. And part of it is that you have to walk the talk. You have to actually live it. You can't just say, Hey, I'm great at this. You should come to me because it's not credible. But if you actually are very good at what you do and people are able to pick up on that and you can actually help them, then it's a great thing to do and it's a great approach to take. One of the things that I've always maintained over the years is you've heard the expression is not what you know. It's who you know. And I've always maintained that that is completely false. It's not about who you know, it's about who knows you. There are people listening to this podcast that I don't know at all. They don't know me personally necessarily, but they're going to feel a lot more like they know me than I know them because I've never even heard them speak or whatever. We've never had a conversation. So they're going to know me better. And some percentage of that market is going to say, this makes sense to me. I think I'd like to work with this guy, and then if they want to pursue it, they will.
Chris: For most businesses, it's such a change in perspective and so how do you go about making this change? I feel like there's so many businesses that go down this road and business owners of, “Oh, I really don't want to be the stereotypical sales guy, but I just don't know how to do it in a way that feels more authentic to me.” How do they begin that process, David?
David: Well, it's counter-intuitive in that it goes against everything that most salespeople have ever been trained on. I mean, we've all been taught that you have to establish rapport with people, and then you have to go for the appointment, and you have to overcome objections, and you have to do all these things - that back in the 70's seemed revolutionary, but today are just not the best way to go. If you're having to overcome a lot of objections, it means that they either don't get you or you didn't get what it was that they were trying to do.
Chris: Absolutely. Such a battle. Right? I mean, you can just feel the resistance building when that's the process.
David: Right. And when I run into a situation, if somebody is antagonistic toward it, well, I don't know how that's going to work for me. I'm like, Hey, maybe you're right. You know, if it doesn't make sense for you, then maybe it's not a good fit. And once again, what it does is it allows you to attract the types of prospects and clients that you actually want to interact with, you know, to improve your quality of life. I mean, this is supposed to be about marketing and sales, but in some cases it does impact your quality of life for the better when you're able to do this.
Chris: If I am living as a leader in what I do with the people that I'm working with in my business as my clients, guess what? I find that I get to live as a leader in all of my life. I guess the thing that I look at is in terms of what it means to be a leader is also that I'm authentic. That I'm attentive and that I'm delivering some kind of value in something like this podcast and I'm cataloging all the words that we've gone through. There's leaders and followers, there's being authentic. There's all of these things that apply to being a leader, and I just think that leadership is the one place in business that we tend to not be as good at it, but I think it just has such huge ramifications for my business and also down the line.
David: Yeah, and if you focus on just being good at what you do, delivering a high quality product or service being very good, being very attentive and getting the results that people want, that's what creates leadership. I think that if you don't have those things, it's very difficult to lead because you're coming from a place of just being false. And I don't think it's possible to lead authentically if what you're offering to people is not going to help them accomplish their objectives.
Chris: Yeah. It's really the opposite of telling and selling, isn't it?
David: Yeah. It's living it.
Chris: So for somebody who's looking at this and really is seeing, yeah, I really could do better from a leadership standpoint, but they're struggling with how to make that happen. What do they need to know?
David: Well, as we talked about, I think you need to start with asking yourself, am I doing what I do as well as I could possibly do it? And if you're not, work on that first, you know, get good at doing what it is that you do and make sure that whatever it is that you're offering people is helpful to them and is going to be beneficial to them. Beyond that, it becomes about initiating communication with people and starting a dialogue with those who actually want to have a dialogue and whether that comes, as we talked about in the form of social media, whether it comes in the form of an email broadcast or a podcast or whatever it is that you're doing to get your message out there. It could be advertising, it could be a billboard, it could be a radio commercial or TV commercial if you want to go old school.
It could be anything that initiates a conversation. If you look at most commercials on television or listen to on the radio, most of them are very bad at the idea of conveying anything that would get somebody to want to initiate a conversation. Now, if it's for a fast food restaurant and you're hungry and you hear it and you're in the car and you're driving by, yeah, you might pull in. But other than that, if your communication in initiating that dialogue with people is going to get them to feel like they would like to at least explore what it is you have to offer so that they can initiate dialogue with you, it's just going to work a whole lot better.
Chris: And oh, how much more fun too. Right?
David: Exactly. Because you enjoy the conversations more. When somebody contacts you about the products and services you're offering, it's so much better than when you're trying to sell them on the idea of, "Hey, this sounds like this would… I think this would be a really good idea for you." It’s pathetic! So sad.
Chris: And we've all been in those situations and it's no fun to be on either side of that, frankly!
David: It's true! Right.
Chris: And so you basically, through your Total Market Domination course, really a big piece about this is that it's not about telling and selling. It's about really finding the authentic place where I can help bring prospects to me and then have those conversations about fit and really serve them in a way that serves them and serves you.
David: Yes. And it starts with creating an environment in which the very best prospects for the products and services you offer, know who you are, know what you do, and have an opportunity to say, yeah, that sounds good, or nope, don't think I'm interested.
Chris: Yup. Great Point. Just as important, and we've talked about it in this podcast in the last one, is this idea of qualifying the prospect. Why waste our time? Why not help people to know whether we're a good fit for them in the communication, our outbound communication that helps them to make those decisions on their own. And then when somebody does call, does email, does contact us in one way or another that they're already seeing a fit. Man oh man, how lovely is that?
David: And why waste our time, but also why waste their time? I mean, even if they're not a good fit, why waste their time? We don't want to waste either of our time. One of the things that I tell prospects all the time is I'm like, look, I value your time as I value my own, which is to say a lot, you know? So if we don't have a good fit, if this doesn't make sense for you, just tell me and I'm totally fine with that.
Chris: And if you're in the bubble and trying to figure out how to get to this place, the Total Market Domination course is a great place to start with lots of structure that's going to help you to figure out these things. And what's so important, and again, I just cannot overstate it enough, is this idea that authenticity, a leadership is at the core of what you're bringing to the table. David,
David: That's exactly what we need to do.
Chris: Yeah, it really is. And boy, it is, uh, so unusual in this day and age that when people find people that work like you and I do, it's refreshing to them to know that they're not going to be pushed into something that they don't want to do. And that it can be a conversation with a relationship that really feels good. And I really feel like what I'm getting is the best of you for the best of me.
David: And it's really like that for most of the people I would say, who are probably listening this podcast. People who just do a good job, they're focused on their clients, they want to help their clients, but they're struggling to bring new clients through the door. There are some people, in fact, I maintain that a lot of the very best salespeople don't even consider themselves to be salespeople. They just are people who like to help and serve their clients and provide solutions and they're very good at it and as a result of being very good at it, they get a bunch of business, but it's not about the close. It's not about hardcore selling and driving people out of their minds or pursuing them to the ends of the earth. It's about saying, look, this is what we do. If this sounds like a good fit for you, then great. If not, tell me as soon as possible because I don't want to waste a nanosecond of your time or mine.
Chris: Such a refreshing approach. Hey, we've got to wrap it up, but let's just real quickly talk about what's coming up in our next podcast.
David: All right, well, we'll sort of continue the idea of communication with, talk about the MVP's of marketing and sales, the most valuable players of marketing and sales. That's what we'll hit next.
Chris: I can't wait. I'm looking forward to it. David Blaise Topsecrets.com. Thank you so much for your time.
David: Thank you, Chris.
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